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Советы по игре лесными эльфами (англ) часть 1

http://www.cyanide-studio.com/forumBB/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=382&start=230

http://www.cyanide-studio.com/forumBB/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=5991

http://bloodbowlplaybook.com/blocking-statistics-odds-tables/

http://www.cyanide-studio.com/forumBB/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6458

http://www.cyanide-studio.com/forumBB/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=6262

http://www.cyanide-studio.com/forumBB/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5251&start=50

http://www.cyanide-studio.com/forumBB/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7092

http://fumbbl.com/help:WoodElfStrategy

http://fumbbl.com/help:WoodElfSurvey

I play a WElf team since thursday (played one in RL for quite some time) and I first was really surprised by the new assist rules, but I learned fast (one game lost, the next game blood was back in BLOOD bowl ;D) and now I hurt a lot with my elves. Smashed one orc team (got a little lucky with the injury rolls) so bad, he was surprised how hard elves could hit.
Most important thing: Dodge and run to help your buddies and don't allow your opponent more than a blitz per turn. If you try to avoid contact, he will search for it and you can smash the hell out of him getting as much blocks as you want (and can turn to your farvour by dodging/running to assist).

Don’t roll any dice until you have to.
I’m breaking my own rule first - this is basic advice that you see frequently, but it is so easy to forget when you get caught up in the moment that many experienced coaches still do it, so it bears repeating. This is first because it is the number one reason people lose of all experience levels – they make a die roll too soon and get a bad result, ending the turn early. Basically it means stand up all your players first (except for one that you are going to blitz with), move all your players who aren’t going to be blocking or dodging, make sure the ball carrier is safe when you have the ball, etc. Make it an automatic habit.

Always look for opportunities to push players off the pitch.
Every time an opposing player is 2 squares from the sideline and you have a standing player next to him, an alarm should go off: block -> pushback -> blitz him off the field. Can I do it without jeopardizing the game? If he’s standing next to the sideline, the alarm should sound like a fire detector. You don’t want to over-commit to this at the expense of your drive or stopping your opponent, but you want to always be very aware of it. I can’t tell you how many times I see people miss good opportunities to push someone off the pitch.

Wrestle

Its a nice counter to block. Especially on team like the Wood Elves, it helps open up holes in a line of, say, dwarves. Given that the elves don't want to try and grind through the dwarves (or any bashy team), and that most bashy teams have lines full of guys with block, wrestle gives you a means to open up a small gap in the line, which is really all you need. I won't say its better than block in general, since wrestle requires you to go down too, but against block-heavy teams, it can give you a sizable advantage. Also, unlike some skills like frenzy, you can choose whether or not to use wrestle, which is a bonus.

however the way i play in campaign atm wrestle is probably the choice on all wood elves and skaven linemen, maybe 1 or 2 beast men who are speccing as blitzers but most of the more hitty teams should stick with block. the reason i like wrestle and especially wrodge alot for weaker teams is that you are definitely more likely to benefit from the lack of an armour roll and the enemy is gonna be on the floor and is generally slow so you can get up and run away wheras, for example a dwarf blocker is gonna be using 3 of his 4 ma next turn just standing up

Love too. I've been giving all my line elves it over block and it has been working out pretty well. It works best when you are getting blocked rather than blocking them as then your players are getting up first and often don't even have to dodge anymore.

Usually using Wrestle on some Elf Linemen (not more than two) to clear the line of scrimmage or to get to the ball carrier. As second skill they get Tackle, then Dodge.
I don't like Wrestle on slow teams at all (Dwarf, Orc, Chaos). On Skaven I usually go with Block on linemen because that cannot get away from other players as reliable as elf linemen.

Mistake

The loss a 3-1 against a 1400 Orc team was not because I lacked RR, but that I got my ass handed to me by a superior team and a fatal careless newbie mistake (Saved line setups vanish after a game, which resulted in 8 people on the LOS+1 -> Defense Bonus round -> turnover on round 1 -> Result: 5 badly hurt elfs + 3KOs)

Elves

 
This is precisely why I turned two of my linemen into faux-dancers as well. I had two linemen who rolled +ST, so I gave them Strip Ball, Block, Leap, Wrestle, and Tackle. Now I rarely risk my dancers when breaking cages--one is still a dedicated cage-breaker, with AG5 for making Leaps I'm not sure about (say, if I've already used that RR), and the other is a dedicated ball-retriever (once the ball's on the pitch, she Leaps, Sure Hands, then Nerves of Steel/Safe Throws it out of harm's way, often to a catcher who's in scoring distance!).

As others have already said: Strip Ball is 'key' in getting the ball out of the hands of your opponent. Tackle, too, can be of great help, especially against 'Dodgy' teams w/a lot of Sure Hands players. Your Wardancers are the ones with the skills to get inside the cage and back out in one piece.

jump into the cage, blast the carrier then dodge out through the 2 tackle zones to safety.

I've taken wrestle/dodge (wrodge?) on a bunch of linemen and I don't regret it, however on any player that is likely to handle the ball I prefer block because you absolutely do NOT want them to go down, injury or not. For my woodelves I'm planning on turning at least one of my catchers into a dauntless "wrackle" (wrestle/tackle) player as backup against sure-hands players who will be immune to my strip ball tactics, I also have a +ST linemen who will also take the wrestle/tackle combo. Wrestle is an excellent skill against below average MA players like dwarves, chaos warriors or black orcs because they lose a huge percentage of their MA when standing up. This advantage is increased even further when you add jump-up to the wrestle player.

Also, people always leave the ball carrier within reach of my big guys, forgetting about break tackle, so i get an easy knockdown on the ball carrier often

Taking Dodge before Block on about half your lineelves or linerats is smart and has a few advantages over going all Block. The Dodge elves have an easier time staying on the pitch than the Block elves, which helps keep your numbers up - always important for Elves. It also helps reduce the chance of using rerolls. Elves tend to get their turns cut short more than bashy teams because dodging is more risky than blocking, plus they can't afford many RRs to start with - so that's a second advantage. Also, Dodge still adds to your offense - just not as much as Block. Dodge elves are better able to get in to an assist position than Block elves. You are going to be doing limited, strategic blocking with Elves and you are going to want it at 2 dice. The assisting elf doesn't need Block. Think of your Block elf and Dodge elf as a kind of two-elf team for blocking. Dodge elves also have a better chance of getting that critical Blitz hit in, although they do have a lower chance of knocking them down. Finally, you are getting the most out of Dodge by taking it first while the other teams don't have Tackle for a while and you are still getting Block second. Lineelves that live skill up faster than other races, so you are still getting to Blodge while most other linemen have one skill.

But yeah, normally I'd tend to mix up the Dodge and Block between the line elves alternating between the two as they skill up.
That way, if you play Dwarves or someone else with Block, you can stick your Block on the front line. And if you play someone without a ton of Block, you can put your Dodgers on the frontline and make it easier to extricate them from harm's way.

On offense I think going with only 2 or 3 guys downfield is not enough to put pressure on a defense. Your lineman are very capable of scoring so use them on offense. Generally I run 5 players down on offense and have them spread out all over the place but in range of scoring. I keep my thrower back and on turn two I will move him up to throw once I have blitzed a guy free.

A few things that are keys early for the elves.
1. Try to score with guys to give them skills or complete a pass. you need skills to help keep your team alive.
2. Avoid dwarves. They are a nightmare for you..
3 I dont start with catchers usually since your lineman can score so easily. Once you have catchers they eat up the spp so letting your lineman get points early is nice.
4. Early on I take dodge before block with my lineman. Most teams dont have many blocks so they wont select the both down results, and they dont have a lot of tackles so you can get the dodge result. Also since your tream does a lot of dodging you get extra use out of it.
5. On defense I just try to get their offense to spread out so I can use my speed. I don't guard lanes and just try to protect my players.
6. A lot of people will put one on one on your guys to try to tie them up. I try to dodge with one guy and move him over so the next guy gets a 2 dice block. means less dodging and you get some hits to try to get people out. If they want to stall just run to the other end of the field, protect your players and beat on the guys of his as you can. Usually you will get a shot at the ball at some point. Tie up the defenders and leap into the cage and try to knock the ball out. a wardancer with taclke, strip ball, wrestle, juggernaut or grab can be very useful for this.


Offense
Get 3-4 receivers down field in your first turn, bust one free of tz's in the second with a blitz then pass to them, even at a reasonable distance you'll pass on a pretty easy roll so don't worry about getting too close, run into the endzone for a score.

Defense
Bit trickier, tie up cage and leap wardancer into the middle, ensure no assists and 1d block the ball carrier to the ground (hopefully). ball ideally is either popped free of the cage or a 3+ pick up for the wardancer/other player. Go to Offense!

OT: OP, you could try PM'ing Enarion for some tips - he's bloody good with woodelves - takes my beardlings to task every time!


-ALWAYS leave a player in range of the opponents endzone even on defence - I've scored a ton of touchdowns in the same turn I managed to steal the ball - useful if you need to turn the game around quickly

Three basic tactics against caging teams:

(1) Slow them down.
(2) Bash the cage.
(3) Sneak through cage.

1. Slow them down. This is generally done when it is not the first drive of a half. So if a caging team is receiving and only has 3-4 turns left, one tactic that is low cost is to slow them down. Position all your players 1 space away from his guys - with them close enough that with his 1 blitz, he can not make a hole to push the cage very far downfield. On your turn, you blitz with your wardancer against one guy to limit the number of dodges needed and just dodge the rest of the guys away to position again just a space out of his block range. It is very important not to be out flanked here so he just runs that cage "up" or "down" on you and get around a side. This should not happen with wood elves as you have the mobility advantage. Also note - this does not work well when they receive on T1, as slowing them down for 8 turns is awful hard to do.

2. Bashing the cage is tough at TR 100, but the idea is to give an assist and then bash one corner of the cage and then mark up the entire cage with your players. The idea is that he will have lots of blocks - but will be unable to reform his cage. This is an expensive tactic as you give up an awful lot of blocks and with AV 7 this tends to be a bad tactic to use in the first half. Is great in the second half - especially last drive of the game, when you can go for broke. This becomes much more effective when you get sidestep. The goal of course is to bash down a corner of the cage and then mark everything so that opponent is forced to give you a shot at the ball or have to retreat.

3. Sneaking in to steal the ball is the most common wood elf trick since they start with wardancers. Use 1 elf to mark 2 corners of the cage if possible, then leap in with wardancer and take the 1d block. Also of note, you can dodge in as well if you want to try to conserve RR. Dodging is 5+ into a standard cage. With dodge RR (so does not work against dwarves) - that is 55% chance of working. Leap is a single 3+ roll (67% chance of working). Even without a leap or a dodge player, if opponent does not have guard on corners of cage and ballcarrier is ST 3, then a 5+ dodge followed by a 5+ 1d block works 1 in 9 times. Not great odds, but you can also dodge in...if fail, end turn...wait until dodge works (1 in 3 chance), once it works, use RR if needed on 1d block (1d block needing 5+ with RR is 55% chance of getting knockdown).

One other thing, don't kick off first if you can help it, especially against bashy teams. Letting them go first gives them at least 3 blocks and a blitz against you in that one turn. You should be trying to limit them to one hit per turn (blitz) so that is about 4 turns of damage you give them for free at the start of one of their drives. Games with Wood Elves are like fighting the clock, except every tick is another player off the pitch for KO/Inj. Get as many points as you can, as early as you can, before they can pound you down. Receive, score in 2 or 3 turns, then go on defense.

ST 5 Wardancer blitzes Minotaur/Ogre/Krox/Troll.. Elves cluster for the +3 or 4 AV you can give without being in other zones.. dedicated fouling machine comes in (blatantly dodging through umpteen zones with his 87 AG on this team mind you..) and lays in the boot to remove the strongest player on the opponent's team from the pitch (fingers crossed, but 30% chance to casualty with the right skills).
ST 5 Wardancer is now strongest player on the pitch.. begin domination.

I do say that I usually wait untell around 20 games before I get a thrower, so I am aware of their lackluster purchase value to start off on an elf team.

Thing to remember with wardancers is that they're not there to be pampered and protected by rest of the teams. They start with three good skills which makes them great players when bought and after one or two normal skills incredible players, so what you really want to do is to do risky moves with them. After all, if a war dancer dies, a new one can be bought and skilled up easily. Now if a war dancer was to roll +ST for example, then all bets are off. You'll have a demi-god on the field then, but until then, let wardancer take the beating instead of your linemen you've skilled up with great care(They don't come with three skills when bought!).

I would always take block first with treemen, knocking themselves over always causes embarresment (но нужен двойной рол на уровнеL)

I would strongly recommend that you always start your Wood Elf team with an Apothecary, since the cost of replacement players is so high.

Their combination of speed and agility makes Wood Elves the most mobile team in Blood Bowl, so make the most of that advantage. Use your mobility to keep the ball well out of harm's way until you've got a couple of Elves in striking distance (If you're doing it right, this should only take 1 turn). When you're ready to attack, use that mobility to keep your throws short, then hit the open man with the pass and get in for the score.

 

Use your Wardancers to open holes in the opposition line, but take care not to leave them exposed; if you leave a Wardancer in a vulnerable position, he's going to get knocked down and gang-fouled. As for Catchers, they are at their most dangerous when they're used in groups (obviously this won't be an option until you've made some cash and added some new players). If you spread 3-4 catchers out across your opponents' backfield, it will be next to impossible for him to adequately cover them all, and as I mentioned, you can use linemen as receivers until you can afford your full compliment of Catchers.

Remember when I told you not to leave your Wardancers exposed on offense? That's because they're going to be sticking their necks waaaaay out on defense. Use your Wardancers as ball-retrieval specialists, and remember: if there's no way around, and no way through, just go over. There's nothing quite like the look on your opponent's face when your Wardancer vaults over his line, streaks across the pitch, flattens his thrower, and forces a fumble.

If it looks like your opposition is going to pass, do your best to tie up his receivers and get some pressure on the ball, and make the most of your mobility. Clog up the passing lanes to give yourself a shot at an interception, since you've got a 1 in 3 chance with 4 AG. With your combination of speed and agility, you should never be out of position on defense, so don't be afraid to be aggressive against other speed teams (I wouldn't recommend being aggressive against bashy teams). I'm not a big fan of playing Catchers on defense unless they've been built for the role, and even then, I'd only play a defensive Catcher against teams likely to throw

If your opponent tries to run the ball, you're going to be hard-pressed to break a cage, so your best bet is to cut the ball off before the opposition puts it somewhere that you can't get it. If he does get the ball caged, use your agility to stay just out of Block range, and put your mobility to good use by positioning yourself so that he can't advance the ball more than 1-2 squares each turn. Hopefully you'll be able to either run him out of turns, or force him to try something risky. If he's marching on you and it looks like he's going to score, you can either just let him score and save your players a beating, or throw caution to the wind and chuck your elves up against his cage. Keep in mind that going toe-to-toe with Orcs or Dwarves is kind of like using a Troll Slayer to throw a Long Bomb...it should only be done as a last resort.

Wardancers should be taking Strip Ball, Tackle, Wrestle, and Mighty Blow on doubles. with their 8 MV, Shadowing can be a good choice, but I've always found that a player with Shadowing might as well wear a big orange vest that says "Hit Me First", and your opponent already has enough reason to target your Wardancers, don't you think? Fend or Side Step are also good options; Wardancers are hard to knock down, so you'll have plenty of chances to use those skills.

Once you've got both your throwers, groom one for offense, the other for defense. Both Throwers should take Sure Hands, but your offensive Thrower should take Accurate and Safe Throw, with Strong Arm on doubles, while your defensive thrower should take Nerves of Steel and Hail Mary Pass, to get the ball out of those sticky situations down near your own goalline.

As I said above, I wouldn't recommend playing Catchers on defense until they've gained a few defensive skills. Block and Dauntless gives you a 9 MV Blitzer, though there's always the chance that you'll pooch the Dauntless roll and weep as your Catcher cripples himself bouncing off a Lineman. Pass Block is a great compliment to your Catcher's starting skills, so if you want to play a Catcher on defense, this is the first skill to give him.

When on offense, note that the opposition will focus on your Catchers, which can leave a lineman open for an easy score. Don't be afraid to use your Catchers as decoys, luring the defense to one side, then having a lineman squirm free and break down the other sideline for the uncontested score. This drives slower, tougher teams crazy. On defense, be sure that you're in position to capitalize on loose balls and turnovers. Every player on your team is a receiver, and a thrower, so always leave yourself with a chance to turn a loose ball into a defensive TD.

And on both sides of the ball, do what you can to protect your players. The only weakness that Wood Elf teams have is their AV 7, so don't let the other team hit you any more than strictly necessary, and save your Apothecary for deaths or Niggling Injuries/stat decreases. Your prize Catcher got a Miss Next Game? Well that's too bad, but he'll be back good as new in 2 games, so suck it up and save your Apothecary; your opponent is planning a massive foul on your Wardancer.

I'm making a guess here that the original poster doesn't have much experience with LRB 5. I'm deducing it from the skill choices he lists, which are very lrb 4 standard.
In lrb 5 some things change:
You take a thrower so you can get easy access to a Leader re-roll.
Wood elves can make great use of taking Wrestle on their linemen instead of Block. Wrestle is better then Block if you are the one taking hits instead of giving them. You need some Fend as well and you'll need to combine it with Block or Wrestle (not Dodge) to offset the Mighty Blow/Piling On combo that can decimate AV 7 teams.
If you plan on taking Strip Ball on a Catcher then it is a good idea to give him Wrestle first. Wrestle/Strip Ball is a very powerfull combo for elves (and gutter runners).
Frenzy is a superb skill for wardancers (usually my first pick on my first wardancer to get a skill). Immense mobility + frenzy = very big crowdpush threath, giving you the sidelines.

With AG4 Leap and MV8 though, Wardancers can effectively deny the wings to all players across most of the pitch, even in anti-frenzy defensive formations. They can also get SS handily and already have blodge to protect from the retaliation. A very common tactic is to combine them with a Guard player, run in the guarder, leap over the front player in a staggered formation (which is designed to stop Frenzy players) and push the back player into the crowd. Presto, 11-10 men on turn one.

I would take the move up for treemen(no more rolling to see if he can stand up)

I'm not a fan of taking AV over MA on positionals. A wardancer (or catcher) dying isn't a disaster for a wood elf team. Just buy a new one and due to his skills he'll perform ok right out of the box and will skill up quickly.(doesn't mean you should leave him inTZ's for no reason though) Wardancers are putting themselves into risky situations often (leap into cage) and will be targeted anyway so prepare to lose some. +AV doesn't matter much when there's 5 or 6 guys fouling your dancer.
Losing skilled line-elf is a lot worse as skilling up linemen at higher TV's is very difficult and out of the box line-elves are very vulnerable. Taking +AV on a line-elf is a very good idea IMO.

I didnt think of, leader however, I feel is a wasted skill choice

The point of leader is indeed to get an extra reroll quickly. A skill or 100k for a reroll, with a team like wood elves, which can always use more money taking leader early on is a good move.

One of the first skills I take with my WE team is Kick, the ability to pin point where the ball is going to land is very importent for a WE team.

You can ether put it in a corner, wich will isolate the guy picking it up or you can put it close to the LOS and hope for "Blitz", many Coaches favor one side of the field on offence, a well placed kick can leave them wide open for a quick TD.

I usually win my first game with 5-0 or more, and get myself two more players with BLodge (the two catchers)... After that game, if I was lucky, I got a leader re-roll and an apoth. In my third game, I buy my 1st re-roll, only 100k for woodies. As for losing linemen in the first couple of games, they don't get replaced, buying re-rolls, apoth, cheerleaders is a priority, I will do just fine with journeymen.

The more balanced rosters (2 WD, 1 Thrower, 8 line, 2RR or 2 WD, 1 Thrower, 3 Catchers, 5 Line, 1 RR) are probably the best starting rosters.

Here's my current roster:
Treeman 120k
Wardancer 120k
Thrower 90k
Catcher x3 270k
Linemen x5 350k
Reroll 50k

Вордансы быстро набирают опыт, энты нет.

Категория: Статьи по BB | Добавил: Loin (16.01.2010)
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Кто победит в 22 сезоне?
1. Хаос в злом стиле от Игниса
2. Крутые пацанчики Лоина
3. Бузеня или что-то такое Рикамби
4. Незрячая ночь Раллина
5. Неприкосновенная эльфятина Гина
6. Веселый паровозик Локо
7. Возвращающиеся мафиози Е-СИ
8. Звездозакаточная машина Конклава
9. Обнаженные черепки Дайкори
10. Сладкий праздник нурглятинки Легислата
11. Недеды, а прадеды Непрокси
12. Проржавевшие когти Нельдора
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